I think it makes more sense to see empathy as an output rather than something constant that is muted. I can have more empathy for someone I don't like if I learn that something horrible happened to them.
11:54 AM
I think it's a little bit more complicated when a tulpa is in play, but I think it's the same sort of idea
Part of how the brain regulates all output is this process.
12:02 PM
And I do mean all.
12:03 PM
Empathy is output that is fed-back from a certain part of the brain into the part of the brain which regulates communication and is fed back into other systems. Potentially back into itself as well.
12:05 PM
In a sense, saying that internal outputs are somehow free from this muting process that all our other senses observably undergo is strange to me, because it seems like special pleading.
12:06 PM
There is a part of the brain that handles this process by muting or letting through complete data in literally every case in order to build a complete picture that describes whatever the brain is focusing on. This is how the thalamus do.
12:06 PM
Association is not the inverse of dissociation - It's the absence of it.
empathy is the capacity to understand or feel what another person is experiencing from within their frame of reference, that is, the capacity to place oneself in another's position.
what you describe as empathy output is compassion
Yes I should be clear what I'm describing is literally the feelings of that thought construct, not the result of deciding any sort of conclusion based on that data when it gets to you.
12:16 PM
Which are rendered in full and comparable to states you experience.
Zen
Association is not the inverse of dissociation - It's the absence of it.
I don't believe association should be thought of as default - We have interactions every day that are just plainly and clearly "not me", and there are even some internal actions that are like that as well. One example might be something like a tremor, your ability to breathe, generally anything that happens without your control/awareness.(edited)
It doesn't. That's the point. The states associated with the self and empathetic constructs are functionally indistinguishable. People have tried to locate "identity" for a very long time, because we naturally presume it exists in some concrete way that invalidates those empathetic constructs.
10:28 PM
But that's just internal trickery.
10:29 PM
A singlet is a plural who by default disbelieves the numerous constructs they still do share their head with, functionally.
I don't know why, but I love that.
Kinda weirdly elegant in a way
Reguile
I don't believe association should be thought of as default - We have interactions every day that are just plainly and clearly "not me", and there are even some internal actions that are like that as well. One example might be something like a tremor, your ability to breathe, generally anything that happens without your control/awareness. (edited)
Yes to further that statement I agree. It's not the default in terms of "what the brain is literally doing at any given time". In fact, the majority of data is heavily dissociated at any given time because it's not relevant, and sometimes higher cognition is just irrelevant and we go into an automated state where we run through reflex.
What I'm saying is that in concrete terms, when the brain is dissociating it is doing a muting action - Whereas association is the absence of this data-control, and the full passing of all the information the brain is processing at once.
10:42 PM
Dissociation is the default in the sense that the part of the brain that handles it is perhaps one of the only parts of the brain that is never muted even partially, because it's in control of all internal communication, which is vital to core functioning.
10:44 PM
I was merely stating that dissociation is the "active" thing the brain is doing to create association patterns.
10:44 PM
Focus then, is when one of these important data streams is not muted but others are in order to highlight it.
For tulpas? Do you mean divergence from what you expected?
8:44 PM
When it comes to divergence I'd say the things that you belief strongly aren't going to change. It's really the things that you question that change. I think divergence might be more endemic to tulpamancy purely because it's been recorded since the beginning. Even in the source material for tulpas-as-mental-companions, the theosophist who made one (and spuriously labelled it a tulpa; I'm not sure if we can believe that source at all, it may be a lie), claimed they experienced a strong divergence from a happy jolly monk to a negative snarky, sly, one. But even if this did happen I would expect it would be due to negative beliefs about it being a spirit or personal anxiety or whatever else. I don't think by default tulpas have radical shifts.
If you're asking if my mind is different because I'm a tulpamancer, honestly I have no idea. I think my brain works pretty differently than it did a few years ago, but I don't have any proof.
Hello I have a question about tulpas. I've read about them being friends and even waifus D:, but are there any improvements in the mind's capabilities from having a tulpa or tulpas?
(Alexandra David-Néel said tulpas could go on missions for their makers, and mystical people wrote that servitors, elementals, could go on missions for their makers, yeah that's dank if it's true but if it is true then you may have to be an actual magician on top of knowing how to make tulpas and things...)
(Parallel processing and wonderland switching have been reported, but also it seems the average person should not expect those)
With tulpas Zen said there can be better hallucination and something about hypnotism, so that's one thing.
Franz Bardon said that artificial elementals could strengthen mental faculties, ok that's nice, it might have been even nicer if he gave some examples.
@anon I'm not fully qualified to answer that but I'll give you my take on it. As far as I understand, a tulpa within your brain is never capable of doing anything your brain can't already do. If you are incapable ( at the time ) of answering a math question, say because you legitimately don't know the answer to it, your tulpa can't do it either. Creating a tulpa that you decided would be smart doesn't make it capable of knowing things you don't know, because the information is not there in your brain for it to reference.
You could think of it in a sort of fantasy sense with physical traits rather than mental ones. If Jackie Chan were to Freaky Friday mind swap with Some Guy who never worked out a day in his life and was overall weak, Jackie in that body would not be capable of doing flips and all that because the body is physically incapable. Some Guy in Jackie's body, however, also wouldn't be able to do a flip because he doesn't know how. Which brings us to the next part.
Though a tulpa can't do what you're physically incapable of, a tupla CAN look at the same things from a different perspective, and might learn or understand something you wouldn't have due to that perspective. Say you are a smart enough guy but you hate math, and have no interest in applying yourself when it comes to learning math. If you have a tulpa who does like math and applies itself to learning it you will, in turn, learn math much more quickly. This is because while you didn't know the math, you were never really 'incapable' of learning it, you just didn't care to. Hope that makes sense!
7:04 AM
.
tl;dr your tulpa can't do what would be outright impossible for you to do, they're not spirits or mystical beings, they are literally just an alternate lens that your brain can view the world from that's so different from your own lens that you no longer really consider them to truly be "you".(edited)
I pretty much agree with Fokson
I don't know about the mind swapping part, but then again it's not clear how that works and there's different interpretations for it. I agree with the tulpa argument though.
Tulpamancy itself encourages the practice of skills that the average person doesn't. For instance, exploring the wonderland, inner symbolism, and imposition are all accessible to singlets to learn and develop. I don't know if switching is plural exclusive or not, probably not but I don't know how one would go about it. We like to think a singlet can learn any skill in tulpamancy
A long kiss goodnight
I pretty much agree with Fokson
I don't know about the mind swapping part, but then again it's not clear how that works and there's different interpretations for it. I agree with the tulpa argument though.
Tulpamancy itself encourages the practice of skills that the average person doesn't. For instance, exploring the wonderland, inner symbolism, and imposition are all accessible to singlets to learn and develop. I don't know if switching is plural exclusive or not, probably not but I don't know how one would go about it. We like to think a singlet can learn any skill in tulpamancy
Switching is a phenomena in bpd/borderline without considering it plural
Also I think plurals switch on regular basis by swapping social masks. I can see it could be an exercise for tulpamancers to switch - see what it feels like to switch from “talking to family” mask to “talking to friends” mask, capture that mechanism and try to do the same with tulpa where the difference is also about name and form not just behaviour(edited)
3:46 PM
Depending on the interpretation you will get different results. If you expect it to be a different person, you will get the effect that is on Ranger’s system. Think it’s a mask with different name and form, and you will have Mon’s system
Hmm so getting a different personality, like for learning maths, is a use. Reportedly taste preferences and even eye refractive errors can change. Perhaps I will look into servitors as a way to improve my thinking, like maybe short-term memory, and I should continue trying to improve visualisation and make a mind palace or wonderland for long-term memory. I have another question, does having a tulpa or tulpas make anything easier, or make learning anything easier?
And I wouldn't say that making a tulpa makes anything easier... It might improve your empathy and be a temporary solution for loneliness if anything. But it's not something that will make life easier for you in anyway.
For some reason I thought I should improve my visualisation before doing such mental things, and for some reason I forgot to improve my visualisation, and for some reason I remembered again.
For symbolic interaction, and because of Kamiko's story about destroying a servitor and making it over and over to make sure it would not be conscious, where the servitor had an imaginary form.
Do you mean the wand and athame spirits, or the Tahani servitors made of smaller servitors, or the coloured ball servitor, or some or all of them?(edited)
looking at Kamiko's stuff now Curious. Not sure how I missed this, though I think was quite busy at the start of the month.
10:33 PM
Did... nobody tell Kamiko that you're supposed to use servitors for one simplistic function in the singular and then destroy them? They are meant to be one compartmentalized complex function. The pain-detection servitor measures up but it's literally programmed, which is an internally meaningless thing to do, the symbol needs to be rendered into one discreet form and not abstracted from what I understand. Maybe they did this step outside of their notes, though so perhaps I shouldn't presume.
Tahani though? The fuck. That's just blatantly tulpa-behaviour. It's like Kamiko hasn't even read the basics of what a servitor is. And what they cannot do before they develop cognition and derail themselves automatically because they're based on impulsive thought.
10:34 PM
And they mentioned iterations of servitors.
10:34 PM
You don't iterate servitors.
10:34 PM
That's tulpamancy.
10:35 PM
A servitor is one suggestion-created minor thoughtform that is discarded once it is used for its purpose.
10:36 PM
There are chiefly two things that lead to servitors becoming tulpas, and that's attributing a personality and keeping them around too long and in too many situations.
I mean, you can have ongoing servitors. But yeah, they usually get used for one thing. You don't really iterate in the sense that they did with either of them tho, that was more just a whole programming analogy style of iteration they were doing
But also, whatever, if it works for them.(edited)
Here is another one with the servitor called Marya (Beta Control 3.0)
https://discord.com/channels/431579755037589505/431591449348276224/796043181212303450"The first reflex program was a pain response. Kamiko chose that because the human brain responds more strongly to negative stimulus. They created a simple grey blob in the mindscape, and programmed it to turn crimson in response to "physical" assault of various kinds and "psychological" attacks. If the grey blob ever showed signs of responding independently, developing genuine communication, or any other signs of growing sapience, it was destroyed and remade. The pain reflex took three months to perfect, and over three years to correctly implement in my overall blueprints."
4:27 PM
Dawg that takes dankness to a whole an other level or something.
Kamiko left this discord server :( but some people seem to have DM'd Kamiko about joining Kamiko's Baby Witches discord server, so this may enable you to type with Kamiko yourself Zen.(edited)
Honestly Anon, though I don't have any direct beef with Kamiko, my only direct experiences with them have left a sour taste. I simply don't wish to talk with them strongly. Their pursuits are fascinating but they as a person strike me as insufferable.
4:55 PM
I'm still curious as to the why of their servitor: What value does such a construct have? Why construct something that in detail displays emotional ques when you are experiencing those emotional ques yourself and simply don't need them.
Reportedly such a servitor can talk to a therapist for you, about things you would find it hard to talk about, and if people are used to you acting autistic and robotic they may not know they are talking to a servitor. Also please don't make Kamiko's servitor public, like by putting on the forum Kamiko's full name and things about the servitor, in case there is reason Kamiko has not told many people about the servitor. I speculate, and/or possibly partly remember, that some autistic people may sometimes prefer not to have to experience all of the person's waking life. The servitor said that Kamiko could be in deep meditation while the body was being controlled, so that's efficient use of time.(edited)
Kamiko? Lord Kamiko? Are you talking about that person who viewed themselves as an occult master and was treating everyone here like their apprentices? (edited)
You may have pattern recognition that links someone's use of words to the person's mental activity. You may choose wording that gives the connotations you intend. You may also avoid giving patterns that will be recognised as, for example, thinking yourself a master and others your apprentices and additionally the connotations that would come with that.
If though, someone does not have this connotation pattern recognition, or ignores it, the person may, by not avoiding fitting a pattern, fit that pattern, though not for the reason inferred as the connotation.
If the frequency of people in the population that are not following your pattern following and avoidance is low enough, you might be reasonably certain that if someone fits the recognised pattern as translated by your brain, that person is being what you infer the person to be being.
With Lord Kamiko being autistic though, it becomes more plausible than without that evidence that Lord Kamiko fitting the pattern may be from lack of avoidance of the pattern and from otherwise unusual thinking, rather than what would be intuitively inferred from the pattern.
Someone showed me this video about Bayesian probability.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HZGCoVF3YvM(edited)
In honesty, moreso that all thoughtforms are constructs but not all constructs are thoughtforms. Thoughtforms have a presumption of sentience/autonomy.
Kinda weirdly elegant in a way
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